Spike Lee to Black
Audiences: Grow Up

He talks about his latest film, "25th Hour"
And the state of Black film.

By Esther Iverem
SeeingBlack.com Editor

What do you think about Spike Lee's comments? Tell us here!

Iverem—"25th Hour" felt to me as much a meditation on New York as a story surrounding one man. Was it that for you? And if so, how much of that comes from Berlioff's novel and script? How much of it is your vision as a director?

Lee—The script came from David Berlioff's fine novel, which was written before 9/11. I added the references to 9/11. So we're basically taking on Monty's last hours of freedom in a post-9/11 city.

Iverem—How did you get involved in this project?

Lee—I was sent the script. Berlioff has an agent and he sent me the script and I was drawn by the writing and by the characters. You don't see a script like that very often. I don't read lot of scripts. You know, I mostly write my own stuff. What I do get sent is usually terrible. … I'm not going to direct a script if I can't be comfortable with it. It has to be something within my own sensibilities, and that I can personalize.

Iverem—Did it feel odd to approach New York City from outside the African American culture for a story like this? I see this as being different from "Son of Sam," which was particular to an historical event, person, crime spree.

Lee—No. I'm a New Yorker and New York is diverse city and that diversity has been in my films since way back in "Do the Right Thing". "Son of Sam" focused a lot on Italians living in the Bronx.

Iverem—How do your projects happen now?

Lee—It really happened the same way they always happen. You have a script and you try to get money for it.

Iverem—Following up on that, is that process harder or easier for you now? People know who you are.

Lee—It depends on how much money I am trying to get. "Bamboozled" was a very difficult film to try to get made because of the subject matter. We wound up at New Line because no one else was interested. Mike Deluca was very instrumental in getting that film made. "25th Hour" was a lot easier to make. It cost $15 million but, remember, the average Hollywood film is costing $50 million so there is a definite difference there.…

Iverem—I've always thought of you as a maverick Black independent filmmaker who didn't care about big budgets, who wore as a sort of breastplate of honor that you do not need a big budget. But is Hollywood's budget disparity beginning to bother you?

Lee—It depends on what you're trying to do. This film should not have cost more than $15 million but there are two epics I want to make that I have not been able to get funding for—at least $75 million—one on Jackie Robinson and one on Joe Louis. One, they think baseball films don't make a lot of money and that Black baseball films definitely do not make a lot of money. But Jackie Robinson marked a seminal moment in American history. Hollywood still has a limited viewpoint on the type of Black films they'll make. Gangster, hip hop, shoot-em-up or low-brow comedy. Recently there have been two films that have broken that mold-"Drumline" and "Antwone Fisher" but, for the most part, these are exceptions. It's hard to get the studios to think outside of those ghettos. And the African American audience has to support films that are outside of those boxes.

Iverem—But the African American audience is no different from the larger one. It goes to the movies for entertainment. We want to laugh.

Lee—Yeah. We want to laugh but if that's all we want to do then we can't be complaining all the time—look at these movies Hollywood is putting out—when films are made outside of the of these ghettos and we don't support them. Look at "Antwone Fisher." It did okay but it should have done much better. Black people should have come out and supported that film.

Iverem—But Antwone Fisher did not open initially in very many theaters. Here in the Washington, DC area, a women told me that she and her husband went to see the film at a theater where it shared a screen with "Lord of the Rings," which also had three other screens in the same theater. So "Antwone Fisher" had only three screenings the whole day. At the show she attended, there was a line of Black people that stretched around the corner and most of them could not get in because that show was sold out. So the audience isn't always to blame.

Lee—I think that's an isolated case. …When a film gets a limited release you gotta drive the extra two miles to see it. We're trying to do films outside the regular thing and the audience doesn't come…. I was on Tom Joyner yesterday and a friend called me from Atlanta. He said, I heard you on the radio and it made to think, Why did I go to see "Chicago" before I went to see "Antwone Fisher." So I said to him, yeah, you have to answer that question for yourself…

Iverem—Okay. But I still say you can't fault the audience if the film isn't playing where they are. The same thing happened with "Bamboozled."

Lee—These are totally different situations. "Bamboozled" was marketed very badly. There is a world a difference between how "Antwone Fisher" is being marketed and how "Bamboozled" was marketed…Do you think "Antwone Fisher" is going to make as much money as "Barbershop?"

Iverem—I think it could.

Lee—You really think so? How much money you got?

Iverem—Not very much. Well. Maybe it won't make that much but it could. I don't see how you can compare the two movies. "Barbershop" opened on so many more screens and it was marketed to pique the interest and voyeurism of Whites…

Lee—Well, "Antwone Fisher" is going wide this weekend. We'll see.

Iverem—Are you able to do the things you want to do? Do you have to trade off between projects you want to do and those you have to do that are more commercially viable, meaning palatable to White folks?

Lee—No. I've done everything I've wanted to do. I've been able to 16 feature films in the last 17 years.

Iverem—Is Hollywood more comfortable with statements about race made in movies that are not Black?

Lee—Of course. It makes White people uncomfortable—some—when race is rears its ugly head.

Iverem—At the time when "Bamboozled" was released, you spoke a lot about minstrelsy on television and film. Do you see Black independent film as a way to still change that, to make a difference?

Lee—It's not going to be a one-prong approach. The one way to change everything is to get Black people into those gate keeper positions (where they have the power to green light films). That's how you change things, not with Academy Awards.

Iverem—Well maybe you're more optimistic about this strategy than I am. I think that if studios put a Black person into that kind of position it will be a Black person who they know thinks like they do and who will do things just as they have always done them—kind of like the Hollywood version of Colin Powell.

Lee—That's a valid point but there's also the chance that it is going to be someone visionary and the studios will think, hey, that guy can make us some money. As long as you appeal to their bottom line you can do some work. But I agree that just because someone is African American doesn't mean that they're going to be—you know what. The example you gave of Colin Powell is apropos…

Iverem—What is most important to you right now?

Lee—To just continue to master my craft. Good directors are good story tellers.

Iverem—You're a father right? Do you ever think about doing something for children?

Lee—This past November, my book came out, a children's book titled "Please, Baby, Please, Please, Baby, Please" that my wife Tonya and I co-wrote, so maybe that's the first step in doing something for children…

Iverem—When "Bamboozled" was released, you said you were working on a TV program. Whatever came of that?

Lee—I'm still working on it.

Iverem—Can you say anything about it?

Lee—No. It's a jinx to talk about it before it happens. [On that night's "Charlie Rose" show, Lee offers that he is working on a drama maybe for ESPN based on his film, "He Got Game"]

Iverem—It's a drama?

Lee—Oh yeah. I'm not doing any sitcoms. No, no, no….

Iverem—What is the most important development for black filmmakers now?

Lee—I think there are more Black films being made now. The last time they were making this number of films was during the Black exploitation era. The challenge is how do you navigate this world where we're still relegated to those three ghettos. You don't see movies about Sojourner Truth or Matthew Henson or Black science fiction or a Black thriller. The studios say, We're not buying that. They say, do you have something with drugs or a rapper, something we can put Nelly in?

Iverem—So you believe it's all about the studios? Can't we make our own films?

Lee—There's not one way to do it. It's not an either-or situation. You can make the film yourself. "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" was not made by a studio and it was one of most profitable films last year…

Iverem—What's next?

Lee—Don't know yet. Hopefully we'll be shooting something in the spring.

Iverem-— had no idea you were so superstitious.

Lee—Oh yeah. Don't put a hat on a bed, and don't split the pole.

Iverem—Where do you spend most of your time now?

Lee—Still in New York, in Manhattan….

Iverem—Anything else?

Lee—Just the fickleness of the African American movie-going audience….I have nothing against entertainment but there are different kinds of entertainment. We're still in that buffoonery thing. I'm not against those types of films but we have to have more than that. It's not about the budget, it's the vision and calling Martin Luther King a ho and saying all Rosa Parks did was sit her fat, black ass down is not visionary. But this year, when the studios consider what movies to fund, they will see what "Barbershop" made and what "Antwone Fisher" made and that's why you'll see "Barbershop II" and "Barbershop III."

Iverem—So those two films, with entirely different screen situations, will compared like that?

Lee—I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I talk to these studio people and that's how they think.

Esther Iverem's reviews also appear on BET.com and Africana.com.

-- February 3, 2003

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